#209 "A Good Life" with Scott Barry Kaufman

As brought up on the Reddit board r/Samharris, this episode was notable for its skew of Sam's airtime compared to the airtime of his guest. It really is more like Scott is interviewing Sam and not the other way around. And, unfortunately for the Sam Harris listener, that means you get to hear, again, his ideas about psychotropic drug use and meditation &c.

For a layperson like me, there was still much of interest discussed. Here are a few examples of thoughts that stuck out, for me:

Apparently, the field of psychology in general doesn’t like the "squishy" realm of positive psychology. Psychologists prefer to think of themselves as men of science, and they don't want to be mixed up with the gurus and charlatans and self-help aisle denizens.

Transcendees v self-actualizers: Sam and Barry find it useful to divide people into those who seek to change within, versus those who seek to change the world. Looking back on that part of their discussion now, I wonder if they meant only a certain segment? The high-achievers? Or the entire world population? Because I imagine that most of us manage to muddle along leading our little lives of a certain quietude. Not quiet desparation, either, but something less intentional. Quiet equanimity, I think. We roll with the day's punches, and then come home to crack a beer and watch some TV before going to bed and doing it all again the next day. I work with these people, I ride the trolley with them, and I shop at Safeway with them. I don't see a lot of transcendence or self-actualization.

By about 30 minutes in this two hour episode, Sam begins to monopolize most of the air time. Somewhere around 40 minutes in, he is proselytizing about psychedelics for expanding your consciousness. He compares it to an Olympic weightlifter having to train and train to get that body, versus somebody who can just transport in via drugs and lift the same weights.

But here's the thing: one can measure what a weightlifter can lift. But Sam has no measurables for his claims of a more weightlifter-y mind that is supposedly available, post pharmaceuticals. He admits that it is an ephemeral peak experience, but he says its lasting value is to give you a flash of insight: the transcendant wisdom achievable through meditation. Only, he doesn't produce any quantifiable benefits. But so what if you understand your lack of free will? Or imagine you are the "humunculous riding around in your head" like an elephant rider? I'm surrounded by people who have done acid, or pot, or hell even nutmeg, and they appear to have no measurable advantage over the general population. So I remain a sceptic that Sam's drug-induced (or even meditation-induced) insights have any value.

After pontificating about psychedelics, Sam does go back to the interview for short gasps, and Scott manages to get in a word or two about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Google that one and you'll see the famous pyramid they talk about, with a wide base of basic health and safety, then love and esteem in the middle, topped off by a narrow peak of self-actualization. The implication being that you can't worry about self-actualization if you don't have a place to live, or a someone to love you.

But Scott tells about Maslow at the end of his life, as his health declines and therefore he is less secure in his pyramid's base, and yet he found to his surprise that crisis transcended his basic needs for security and somehow he was able to live more fully in the moment and be more creative than before.

Which is a hopeful vision of old age, and a great place to stop.